The Traces of Concept -Interview with Yang Shaobin
Date: 20:17 pm, August 13, 2008
Place: A bar near Li Do Square, Beijing
Interviewer: Jin Yujie

Art Map: Professor Yang, we know you had a collaborative project with “Long March Project”, which is named “800 Meters Under”. Do you persist your way of thinking by the newest collaborative project “X-Blind Spot” with Long March? Can you talk about this subject in a few words? For example, what does “X” represent in “X-Blind Spot”?

Yang: Talking about continuity, “800 Meters Under” two years ago and this “X-Blind Spot” are actually a same project, but in different phases. “X-Blind Spot” is the second phase of this project.
If simply explain it from the angle of the form and style of painting, “X” superficially represents a result of negative film. How to use a kind of negative film to express the theme may make people think of the principle of X-ray, a feeling of perspective. The word “X-Blind Spot” comes from the operational blind spot that a kind of huge coal truck from Taibao open-air coalmine of Shanxi Province has.  The diameter of the wheel of this truck is 3 meters. The height of the truck is 6 meters. One cannot see people within 30 meters on both right and left sides and this is the so-called blind spot. When it starts, there should be another car with a red flag leading it. It is very dangerous to be in that blind area. “X” and “blind-spot” together constitutes the subject of this exhibition. From my part, it’s enough to say all this. As for other things, the curator Lu Jie will tell you more thoroughly.

Art Map: When did you start the tentative idea of “X-Blind Spot”?
Yang: I started it after the closing of the exhibition “800 Meters Under”. I adjusted myself for a period of time and we felt this thing had not finished yet and we should continue. That’s why we start preparing. Last spring, Lu Jie, Xiao Xiong, two photographers and me drove to Shanxi, which can be considered as a real beginning for the second phase of this project. That time we went to Changzhi, Shuozhou and Datong, etc. in Shanxi Province and checked some big or small coalmines.

Art Map: You pay much attention to coal mines and coal miners. Is this related to your personal experience? From your personal memories and experience, what is the living status of coal miners?
Yang: In fact my personal memory is in great contrast with current reality. I used to live in the coalmine area of Tangshan. When I was young, I felt coalmines were very clean and really nice. Everything was clean and in order, including the big garden in the coalmine area, the cinema and the housing of the residents. In 2005, Tangshan coalmine was the first stop of the whole project. That place was still where I used to go and the house was still that house, but the whole environment was hard to look at. Especially the worker’s dormitory, it was an earthly hell. When I first came down there, I was a little muddled. I never expected it to be so shocking and startling. I didn’t even know what to do. At that time the cameraman asked me what to film. I said whatever you like. I didn’t even care. I was totally shocked.

Art Map: What about the form of creation of your new works?
Yang: It is divided into several parts, including video, installation sculpture (including large quantities of light box works) and of course painting. There are also some documents, because this exhibition is a summary to the whole coalmine project. Showing the things we have collected during the past several years, from the spiritual feeling to the material phase, it is a very three-dimensional process of an exhibition.

Art Map: How do you feel about inspecting open country and then going back to the studio to create?
Yang: Using personal ideas and text documents, continuing to think in the studio is one way, and walking and creating outdoors is also a way. Actually earlier Chinese artists all went through the course of going to open country and experiencing life. Through drawing sketches and painting from nature, they collected materials and feelings for creation and stepped into realistic life with considerable effort. But today we depend more on cameras, video, and text materials to produce work. We have quicker and more convenient ways to collect materials, but correspondingly some problems also appear.

Art Map: Is there any difference between your status when you created “Red Violence” and “International Politics” and your current status?
Yang: There is an accumulation of seven or eight years before “Red Violence”. In other words, from the Old Summer Palace to Songzhuang, this period of time was a time of suffering deprivation and hardship. I had no sense of security, but a lot of pressure. I felt life was hard and harmful. “Red Violence” was created based on this psychological element. “International Politics” series is related to real events with deep influence such as “9/11” and the Iraq War. As a whole, there is a definite clue in these three parts of my creation: attaching importance to relatively cruel realities.

Art Map: During the process of “X-Blind Spot”, you went to many places to inspect. The places are more and the areas are broader than those of the “800 Meters Under” project. This “moving inspection for creation” may cause the realistic materials you face and think to become numerous and jumbled. Can you explain some realistic materials that impress you?
Yang: Yes, we went to more places for “X-Blind Spot” than “800 Meters Under”. We only went to Tangshan for the latter project. As for “X-Blind Spot”, we went to four or five places in Shanxi Province. We also went to Neimenggu, Fushun of Dongbei Province and a hospital specializing  in curing pulmonary diseases in Beidaihe. I think this exhibition is more abundant and penetrating than the first one, because the documents we prepare are sufficient. From the perspective of painting, we have also taken one step forward. So long as the visual feeling is concerned, the paintings of this project are quite powerful. No more feelings of insanitation and darkness that people imagine coalmines should be like. From the general perspective of this exhibition, I don’t want people to feel very subdued after seeing it. There should be a distance between painting and video work, because video is too realistic and serious. If painting is presented in the same way, I don’t think the result will be ideal. Some interesting elements are also added in these new works, for example, Charlie Chaplin. The image of Chaplin was taken from his film roles as workers in the earlier industrial era of the West. This is due to my consideration of identity, history and the contrast of reality.

Art Map: I think you use a vision of sociology when you put Chaplin in it. But you also put your personal power of imagination in this vision so that it can have a kind of surpassing.
Yang: Yes, surpassing or a kind of “breakthrough”. For example, the bitter sense of humor that only Chaplin has is a very good reason to include him as comparison in this work. 

Art Map: In our imagination, it is rather difficult for one to go into a coalmine area, for it is almost a forbidden world for outsiders. Have you encountered many obstacles when you inspected these coalmine areas?
Yang: We met obstacles when we went to small coalmines. Usually when we went to big coalmines, we would find our best local friends. For example, we could go down to film smoothly if we asked someone from the TV Station to take us there. It’s a little dangerous if you go into a small coalmine because small coalmines usually have a quality of underworld. You cannot go in if you don’t have very liable relationship with someone.

Art Map: We know there are many artists who pay attention to coalmines. For example, Xu Weixin also paints coal miners. Not long ago, an exhibition at Today Museum was named “Black Gold”, created by Zhang Jianhua. The movie “Blind Shaft” also demonstrates coalmines and coal miners. How do you consider their creations?
Yang: In fact, in my opinion, there is a problem of identity; in other words, how do you define yourself when you create works. This can’t be the same for it involves many problems.
Things I used to do are surely different from things I do now. But now I do this conversely and I do it with my conception. But the style and the theme of many artists are consistent from the beginning to the end. There is an existing inertia and the theme is not a problem.

Art Map: Your new works also deal with some topics related to “slums” and the removal of coalmines. Can you talk about it?
Yang: The government wanted to develop, so some coalmines were removed, so were the workers. In the slums of an old coalmine, they gave 1000 RMB to each family and they didn’t care where you would go. Actually their identities were changing. Many people moved to villages because they didn’t have houses to rent in big cities, plus the houses were expensive. These coal miners are coal miners today, but tomorrow they might be farmers.
When we went to Datong, we met with a removalist. I thought it was a good opportunity. We have never seen such scenes, even though we had been there several times. We made sure to record all those scenes in our video work. The content includes many materials, such as production inside well, outdoor exploitation, coal miners in hospital and removal of those people living in slums. However, its structure and form are hard to imagine for many people, in great contrast with the video work of “800 Meters Under”. Many of the shots are shocking, for example, the part where a coal miner is in the treatment process of lung lavage.

Art Map: How did you film this part of lung lavage?
Yang: It was filmed in a hospital specializing in curing pulmonary diseases in Beidaihe. We got permission to enter a surgical venue and collected many original materials. In fact if I stay in a hospital for too long, I want to puke, because what I see there is too visceral. You cannot only see these in video works, but also see installations made up of light boxes in relation with these, just like tombstones.

Art Map: Experimental works like yours may not directly generate economic value in a short time. How do you consider that?
Yang: In fact since the day I decided to devote to art, I have never thought I could earn money by doing this. Therefore when I was in the Old Summer Palace, my biggest wish was to have 500 RMB per month, enough for me to rent a room and paint. It was only the love for art or an ideal. If you keep thinking of money when you prepare an exhibition, this exhibition can’t be good. It’s the same now. We all have dreams, so does “Long March”. I myself also have dreams. Many of the projects of “Long March Project” do not earn money, such as “Long March Project - Great Survey of Paper-Cuttings in Yanchuan County’ , “Long March Project - Yan’an” and “Long March Project - Chinatown”. These all depend on a group of people gathering together to realize their ideals. What they emphasize is the qualities of austerity, academy and society of art.

Art Map: How do you keep a lively internal intuition for creation under the dual pressure of culture and commercial capital? It seems hard to achieve.
Yang: In fact I always like art with “problems”. For example, an artist doesn’t paint very well, but he has lots of good “problems”. I like this kind of artist. Some artists paint very well, but it doesn’t mean anything. Where is the meaning of your painting? Where is the meaning of art? I think there must be a self-questioning to maintain internal consideration.

Art Map: You have a custom, which is taking notes during the process of inspection. Is this way of recording helpful for you?
Yang: Sometimes I take notes. When you have some good ideas, if you don’t take notes immediately, you will forget them. Once the inspiration is passed, it’s hard to find it back. Although the small sketch was not formal, it might be a direction. You might find it unimportant at that time, but later it becomes critical.

Art Map: You keep searching for change and breaking the limits of your creation. You have two principle changes: one is around 1993 by searching for your art conception and the other is around 1997 by changing of form. You seem to have had the predicament of the “anxiety of identity”. Now that the public has accepted your works, do you still have this kind of confusion?
Yang: I think there was a change of form around 1997. No other changes of forms later. Since 1994 to 1997, I wanted to get away from something gradually and create new things. But now I haven’t established it yet. The problems I confront are different. In fact what I personally care about still has the same clue. These are not strange or new to me. In fact method or style are not what I worry about. They are all natural things.

Art Map: Did the “anxiety of identity” appear only around 1997?
Yang: Yes. When I arrived in Beijing in 1993, I knew nothing and still was looking for grounding in the concept of art. I didn’t think much about the problem of the identity of an artist. But now I feel disappearing from the art world for a period of time may be a good choice. There are some artists who disappear for years, seemingly having done nothing. But when they reappear, they create wonderful works. These artists are really outstanding.

Art Map: In fact we see a kind of social responsibility and humanistic spirit of an artist from your works. The public seems to understand you more on the surface of the works. Actually they also want to know the other parts of you. For example, you like rock music, is there any imperceptible relation between your creation and your favorite music?
Yang: In fact I don’t listen to it any more. Do you know why? Because I think there’s no good rock music since Marilyn Manson. They all become commercial…and boring. I can’t find a power like his, so I can’t listen to rock music now. I used to listen to it a lot. The era of “Red Violence” series tallied with my state of mind.

Art Map: I heard Zuoxiaozuzhou had used your works as covers for some of his albums. Do your works kind of correspond with his music?
Yang: Yes. He used my works. We are a little like-minded.

Art Map: Is it the faith like “Red Violence”?
Yang: Yes, a little… We both like cruel and beautiful things. This is a mutual point.

Art Map: What do you think the function of contemporary art is? Is it criticizing reality?
Yang: It should be. I think art should maintain this essential quality.

Art Map: Do you think the aesthetic feeling of art is still important?
Yang: Of course.

Art Map: I think many contemporary artists’ works can be cruel, but they don’t care about the aesthetic feeling.
Yang: It’s because there’s no standards. Maybe it’s like what you said, they don’t care about it. This might also be a way. The aesthetic feeling you emphasize is also a method and a technical problem.

Art Map: What will be your future interest?
Yang: I have no idea. I like to do these kinds of projects more. If a gallery wants me to have a solo exhibition, I will ask: “What will we do?” I might not be interested. Although doing a project is tiring and torturous, you will find it meaningful in your life when you recall this process.